large segments of capitalist academia are basically just a pyramid scheme.
if the only thing the degree qualifies you to do is become a college teacher in that subject then just save your money
in the Glorious Communist Future researchers will still have to demonstrate that their research has practical utility if they want funding/resources, I hate to break it to you
the key here is “if they want funding/resources for their research”- obviously people should be able to research whatever they want in their free time with their own resources, but if they want the community to specifically provide material support for their research, then yes they will have to demonstrate it’s providing something of value. obviously musicologists won’t need to increase iron production, but they’re going to have to be providing *something* of value if they want musicology to be more than just a personal hobby.
I don't know how to explain to communists that culture has value.
of course culture has value, and the value of culture can be empirically demonstrated, and if someone wants communal funding/resources to be dedicated to their cultural research, they should demonstrate that value.
You people have worms in your brains
“can’t believe I have to demonstrate value if I want other people to dedicate their resources to my projects”
Can't believe you still view all interactions as a transaction with a running tally that needs to equal out. When the sick or elderly stop demonstrating "value" equal to their contribution will you cull them? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line on what does and does not demonstrate "value"? How do you measure "value"? If a doctor is valuable is a therapist? If a baker is valuable is a chocolatier? Who makes these choices? You? A council? How do you ensure they are making informed judgements? How do you ensure they aren't biased or self serving?
Like at the end of the day you are just showing yourself for another fool who wants to abolish one system based on compulsory labor in favor of a different system of compulsory labor.
You're the same shit in different hat, and you really need to take a long look at yourself and your shitty morality.
“you don’t think that someone should receive limitless communal resources to write their 5000 page dissertation on obscure death metal demos from the 90’s? wow I guess you want to cull the sick and elderly then”
thank god someone in the notes has the energy to point out how absurd this is cause r/n all I can manage is sarcasm in response to this nonsense
as long as their other needs are taken care of
large segments of capitalist academia are basically just a pyramid scheme.
if the only thing the degree qualifies you to do is become a college teacher in that subject then just save your money
in the Glorious Communist Future researchers will still have to demonstrate that their research has practical utility if they want funding/resources, I hate to break it to you
the key here is “if they want funding/resources for their research”- obviously people should be able to research whatever they want in their free time with their own resources, but if they want the community to specifically provide material support for their research, then yes they will have to demonstrate it’s providing something of value. obviously musicologists won’t need to increase iron production, but they’re going to have to be providing *something* of value if they want musicology to be more than just a personal hobby.
I don't know how to explain to communists that culture has value.
of course culture has value, and the value of culture can be empirically demonstrated, and if someone wants communal funding/resources to be dedicated to their cultural research, they should demonstrate that value.
You people have worms in your brains
“can’t believe I have to demonstrate value if I want other people to dedicate their resources to my projects”
Can't believe you still view all interactions as a transaction with a running tally that needs to equal out. When the sick or elderly stop demonstrating "value" equal to their contribution will you cull them? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line on what does and does not demonstrate "value"? How do you measure "value"? If a doctor is valuable is a therapist? If a baker is valuable is a chocolatier? Who makes these choices? You? A council? How do you ensure they are making informed judgements? How do you ensure they aren't biased or self serving?
Like at the end of the day you are just showing yourself for another fool who wants to abolish one system based on compulsory labor in favor of a different system of compulsory labor.
You're the same shit in different hat, and you really need to take a long look at yourself and your shitty morality.
“you don’t think that someone should receive limitless communal resources to write their 5000 page dissertation on obscure death metal demos from the 90’s? wow I guess you want to cull the sick and elderly then”
thank god someone in the notes has the energy to point out how absurd this is cause r/n all I can manage is sarcasm in response to this nonsense
Personally, my view is that higher level academia should be accessible as a hobby, not an entire industry. Regarding getting enough professors/teachers, well, if reddit has taught me anything, it's that people will happily ramble about their favorite subjects without getting paid so long as all their other needs are taken care off.
ABSOLUTELY! This is the key point here, AND very good insight into why people don't need to be forced to work. Study after study has demonstrated it. But what this means is either:
- All needs must be taken care of as a base function of society
Or
- The passion MUST be an industry so that people are able to take care of their needs
I have some questions.
If the value of culture can be empirically demonstrated, does this value have a number? How is this number calculated? Are some elements of culture more valuable than others? Could we empirically demontrate that - for example - paintings are more valuable than music?
If a community collectively decides that they would actually quite like a university with a musicology department and want to funnel funding and resources towards that, just because they think it would be nice, isn't that justification enough, practical utility be damned?
I am a musicology professor In the communist utopia, and I would like some funding and resources for my department so it can function. I currently have none. With no funding or resources, how do I do preliminary research to demonstrate that my department could have practical utility?
This is maybe a less serious question but why come after the arts - parts of academia that recieve and use way less funding and resources proportionally compared to others, when you have an entire class of degrees that have no pracitical utility now, and would have no practical utility in a hypothetical communist utopia AND use up a lot more funding and resources than they could ever need - buisiness majors.
Now regarding the specific example of a researcher writing a "5000 page dissertation" on obscure death metal from the 90s. - Well, first of all, 5000 pages is absurdly long, the longest dissertation ever submitted clocked in at less than half that, and that was about the history of sailing. Most dissertations are only a couple hundred pages. So I'm just going to chalk up the 5000 page number to hyperbole and say it represents a researcher dedicating a significant amount of time and resources to the topic.
In order to do that research, what would they actually need? From my perspective:
- Food, shelter and all thier other basic needs taken care of, which in this utopia, I think we can all agree is a given.
- Access to writing equipment, or like - a laptop or something idk so they can actually write thier dissertation down. I don't think represents many resources in the grand scheme of things.
- Access to as much 90s death metal as possible - which could be achieved via a publically availible database of say, all music ever recorded. If they need access to physical media, there could be some kind of repository for that physical media. A building, climate-controlled and worked by people who understand the archive process and could help people find what they're looking for. Y'know, libraries and cultural archives, which I assume would still exist in the communist utopia. Importantly, all of that would have utility and scope far beyond the narrow research this one person is doing.
- Now this is probably the most resource intensive requirement I can think of: the ability to personally interview as many people involved in the 90s Death metal scene as possible, for the sake of research. Now assume the worst scenario possible, our researcher cannot interview these people over the phone or internet; they can't network with people who live closer to the subjects and have them conduct the interviews. They must travel physically, to every single person they want to interview. And the scope of thier research is so large that it involves interviewing people around the globe. And that sounds pretty hard to justify! Paying for someone to travel around the world interviewing retired musicians or whatever. But it hardly has to be, after all in the communist utopia, there should be a globe-spanning network of public transportation that can get you to any inhabited place you want to go, our researcher is free to ultilize that.
Unless I'm missing something, someone dedicating a few years of thier life to writing a dissertation, and making use of public resources that would have utility far beyond the scope of the entirity of academia, doesn't seem like a terrible drain on society's collective resources.
Well yeah if we approach it with any sort of thought then the whole thing starts sounding reasonable. But if we did that how else could Tanky’s talk down to the weird kids with special interests. Next your gunna say queer history has meaning or some other thing that is perfectly responsible, but Tanky’s can’t harass queer kids like they want to if we do anything close to that.
VERY cool how I’ve been accused of homophobia, ableism, and supporting eugenics because I said research that receives public funding should help people.
at any rate @smuganimebitch if the dissertation in question doesn’t take much in the way of public resources, then they should be able to do it with their own personal resources and won’t need to petition for significant public resources. If they *are* going to be using significant amounts of public resources, then they should demo that those resources are being used well. simple as. I don’t pretend to know how best to quantity that value but I do know it’s a bad idea to throw communal resources into projects with no benefit to anyone.
But considering your obsession with refusing to allow people do anything beyond work for basic needs,
large segments of capitalist academia are basically just a pyramid scheme.
if the only thing the degree qualifies you to do is become a college teacher in that subject then just save your money
in the Glorious Communist Future researchers will still have to demonstrate that their research has practical utility if they want funding/resources, I hate to break it to you
the key here is “if they want funding/resources for their research”- obviously people should be able to research whatever they want in their free time with their own resources, but if they want the community to specifically provide material support for their research, then yes they will have to demonstrate it’s providing something of value. obviously musicologists won’t need to increase iron production, but they’re going to have to be providing *something* of value if they want musicology to be more than just a personal hobby.
I don't know how to explain to communists that culture has value.
of course culture has value, and the value of culture can be empirically demonstrated, and if someone wants communal funding/resources to be dedicated to their cultural research, they should demonstrate that value.
You people have worms in your brains
“can’t believe I have to demonstrate value if I want other people to dedicate their resources to my projects”
Can't believe you still view all interactions as a transaction with a running tally that needs to equal out. When the sick or elderly stop demonstrating "value" equal to their contribution will you cull them? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line on what does and does not demonstrate "value"? How do you measure "value"? If a doctor is valuable is a therapist? If a baker is valuable is a chocolatier? Who makes these choices? You? A council? How do you ensure they are making informed judgements? How do you ensure they aren't biased or self serving?
Like at the end of the day you are just showing yourself for another fool who wants to abolish one system based on compulsory labor in favor of a different system of compulsory labor.
You're the same shit in different hat, and you really need to take a long look at yourself and your shitty morality.
“you don’t think that someone should receive limitless communal resources to write their 5000 page dissertation on obscure death metal demos from the 90’s? wow I guess you want to cull the sick and elderly then”
thank god someone in the notes has the energy to point out how absurd this is cause r/n all I can manage is sarcasm in response to this nonsense
Personally, my view is that higher level academia should be accessible as a hobby, not an entire industry. Regarding getting enough professors/teachers, well, if reddit has taught me anything, it's that people will happily ramble about their favorite subjects without getting paid so long as all their other needs are taken care off.
as long as their other needs are taken care of
ABSOLUTELY! This is the key point here, AND very good insight into why people don't need to be forced to work. Study after study has demonstrated it. But what this means is either:
- All needs must be taken care of as a base function of society
Or
- The passion MUST be an industry so that people are able to take care of their needs
I have some questions.
If the value of culture can be empirically demonstrated, does this value have a number? How is this number calculated? Are some elements of culture more valuable than others? Could we empirically demontrate that - for example - paintings are more valuable than music?
If a community collectively decides that they would actually quite like a university with a musicology department and want to funnel funding and resources towards that, just because they think it would be nice, isn't that justification enough, practical utility be damned?
I am a musicology professor In the communist utopia, and I would like some funding and resources for my department so it can function. I currently have none. With no funding or resources, how do I do preliminary research to demonstrate that my department could have practical utility?
This is maybe a less serious question but why come after the arts - parts of academia that recieve and use way less funding and resources proportionally compared to others, when you have an entire class of degrees that have no pracitical utility now, and would have no practical utility in a hypothetical communist utopia AND use up a lot more funding and resources than they could ever need - buisiness majors.
Now regarding the specific example of a researcher writing a "5000 page dissertation" on obscure death metal from the 90s. - Well, first of all, 5000 pages is absurdly long, the longest dissertation ever submitted clocked in at less than half that, and that was about the history of sailing. Most dissertations are only a couple hundred pages. So I'm just going to chalk up the 5000 page number to hyperbole and say it represents a researcher dedicating a significant amount of time and resources to the topic.
In order to do that research, what would they actually need? From my perspective:
- Food, shelter and all thier other basic needs taken care of, which in this utopia, I think we can all agree is a given.
- Access to writing equipment, or like - a laptop or something idk so they can actually write thier dissertation down. I don't think represents many resources in the grand scheme of things.
- Access to as much 90s death metal as possible - which could be achieved via a publically availible database of say, all music ever recorded. If they need access to physical media, there could be some kind of repository for that physical media. A building, climate-controlled and worked by people who understand the archive process and could help people find what they're looking for. Y'know, libraries and cultural archives, which I assume would still exist in the communist utopia. Importantly, all of that would have utility and scope far beyond the narrow research this one person is doing.
- Now this is probably the most resource intensive requirement I can think of: the ability to personally interview as many people involved in the 90s Death metal scene as possible, for the sake of research. Now assume the worst scenario possible, our researcher cannot interview these people over the phone or internet; they can't network with people who live closer to the subjects and have them conduct the interviews. They must travel physically, to every single person they want to interview. And the scope of thier research is so large that it involves interviewing people around the globe. And that sounds pretty hard to justify! Paying for someone to travel around the world interviewing retired musicians or whatever. But it hardly has to be, after all in the communist utopia, there should be a globe-spanning network of public transportation that can get you to any inhabited place you want to go, our researcher is free to ultilize that.
Unless I'm missing something, someone dedicating a few years of thier life to writing a dissertation, and making use of public resources that would have utility far beyond the scope of the entirity of academia, doesn't seem like a terrible drain on society's collective resources.
Well yeah if we approach it with any sort of thought then the whole thing starts sounding reasonable. But if we did that how else could Tanky’s talk down to the weird kids with special interests. Next your gunna say queer history has meaning or some other thing that is perfectly responsible, but Tanky’s can’t harass queer kids like they want to if we do anything close to that.
VERY cool how I’ve been accused of homophobia, ableism, and supporting eugenics because I said research that receives public funding should help people.
at any rate @smuganimebitch if the dissertation in question doesn’t take much in the way of public resources, then they should be able to do it with their own personal resources and won’t need to petition for significant public resources. If they *are* going to be using significant amounts of public resources, then they should demo that those resources are being used well. simple as. I don’t pretend to know how best to quantity that value but I do know it’s a bad idea to throw communal resources into projects with no benefit to anyone.
I mean you haven’t been. But if the shoe fits lace the bitch up?
Y’all tell on yourselves so much.
But then again idk what I expected, since you’ve taking littrally any difference of opinion like we are planning to line you up against The Wall and argue in bad faith.
But considering your obsession with refusing to allow people do anything beyond work for basic needs, and anything beyond that is on your own time, are you positive your not just a capitalist with a weird caveats?
Like if we are gunna do that, I’ll at least take the lottery sized chance I don’t have to spend my life toiling for basic needs, and have anything beyond that take up my limited free time.
i think you can put even more words in my mouth if you really try, really just cram em in there.