The Bernie Sanders who’s running for president in 2020 is not the same Bernie Sanders who ran in 2016.

Yes, he has many of the same policy positions, and many of his 2016 supporters are enthusiastically backing him again. But the Vermont independent senator is no longer the insurgent taking on a political Goliath with huge name recognition. Now, he is the candidate with high name recognition, taking on candidates who are introducing themselves to the American people again.

Not only that, but he is running against candidates who have adopted positions he energized Democrats around in 2016, such as Medicare-for-all and a $15 minimum wage.

NPR’s Rachel Martin spoke to Sanders about differentiating himself in this field of candidates, as well as why he thinks he can win this time.

Bernie Sanders Pledges To Do A Better Job Of Explaining Socialism

Photo: Amr Alfiky/NPR